Dave's Questions/Statements

[Deleted]

Dave, please post your Questions/Statements to Sam & Tomas here.

[/b][/center]

[Dave]

Howdy y’all! Just an fyi I'm travelling tomorrow to Houston and will be away for the entire FTC questioning period. So this is all you're getting from me! When I return I'll read up on everything and vote.

Congratulations on making it to the end! This game was absolutely crazy and I had a blast playing this game with everyone. I’m really coming into this tribal council willing to vote for either of you. I just need you to prove to me with my questions and with the other juror’s questions that you played the best game. Hopefully you’ve talked to me well enough to get an understanding on what I think a good game entails. I’m sure it might differ from other people’s opinions.

Sam
Sam you were one of the biggest challenge threats in this game, which I definitely respect. I think it also says something that you started the game off with the numbers then lost the numbers at the merge, but still managed to get to the end. That’s impressive.

Besides that though, I must admit my perception of your game is not a positive one. You were never around to talk with compared to everyone else and when I did talk to you I found you to be very transparent. Remember when we had that chat where I said I understand when you have to lie about alliances / deals to advance yourself? And then I also said it’s when you lie for the sake of lying that annoys me? Yeah, I caught you lying for the sake of lying and that negatively tainted your image to me for the last few rounds I was in the game.

For this FTC I need you to make me change my negative opinion of the gameplay that I saw. I also will be on the lookout to see what your overall strategy in the game was, and any moves you specifically made that got you to the end.

Tomas

Tomas you probably played the cleanest game out of everyone here. For the majority of this game you were honest and loyal, which was rare to find in this game. I also think you potentially played a great strategic game because as far as I’m aware once the merge hit you were heading to the F3 no matter who got in control. That’s also impressive.

My problem with you is that I can’t tell if that was great gameplay on your part or if you just got lucky that you found yourself in the F2. I always saw you as a follower in the game and that you never made any moves for yourself. I always assumed you’d do whatever Adrian wanted you to do and you’d be happy with a 2nd place finish.

So what I need to get from you this FTC is the idea that you were thinking strategically for the win this entire game and that you weren’t simply going along for the ride. As with Sam I'll be looking for any specific game moves that you made to reach the end.

Questions

Sam

Explain to me why I shouldn’t give Tomas my vote even though I believe that he was headed for the endgame regardless of who was in power?

Tomas

Explain to me why I shouldn’t give Sam my vote even though I think it’s quite impressive to have the numbers in this game, lose them and then still make it to the end?

Both of you

On the strategic side of things both of you were blindsided at certain vote results (Tomas: Adrian, Sam: Ryan) and in my opinion neither of you were the strategic force in any game moves until I left. So two questions:

1. Am I mistaken in my statement that I think neither of you had any real influence in any of the votes before F4? If so explain where I’m wrong.
2. Was it really Tomas who convinced Jose to make the incorrect decision for him (<3 Jose) to turn on me, or is there more to this story?

Thanks guys and good luck!

[Dave]

Hah. Unfortunately for you guys I couldn’t sleep and decided to reread your opening statements. A few more questions.

If anyone else ends up asking these same questions feel free to just direct me to that person’s thread when I return. I’m not Sagar you don’t have to answer the same type of question twice

Tomas

1. The moment that Adrian came to me in the first round and said You/Him wanted to work with me to take out Danielle/Brandon I knew that you two were going to be a tight duo for this entire game. Didn’t help that Brandon publically called you guys out on it. Did you do anything to try to hide this obvious partnership?

2. Did you go to Sam after Adrian was voted out saying ‘hey we need to work together’ or did he come to you saying it?

Sam

You’re going to be getting more questions because I understand Tomas’ game more and I found you didn’t really elaborate on a lot of the things you said in your opening statement.

1. I’m gonna bite. What are you talking about with what happened at the merge? From my game view I agreed and followed Adrian’s plan to have everyone flush their idols and to leave one vote on Renee because we thought there was the chance she was still working with you all. There was not one mention of you or Chris doing anything to influence any merge decisions.

2. How does your strategy of always making sure it wasn’t you being voted out work at the F6? Because even after Adrian left you told me you expected to be voted out. That sounds like a strike against your strategy in my eyes.

3. You said you came up with your own strategies and game plans, and actively worked to implement them. Can you please provide some examples of this?

4. Finally, how is your strategy of making sure you weren’t the one being voted for every round any different from Tomas’ game? I could argue that Tomas played that exact strategy even better because it turns out he was never in danger of leaving this game once. (Thus my original question of why shouldn't I vote for Tomas who was headed for the end game regardless).

It looks like you guys are gonna have a busy weekend answering questions. So I'll take a few extra tequila shots for you guys while I'm gone. No need to thank me for it. I do what I can.

[Sagar]

wow did you just call me out! why don't you say that to my face in ponderosa you bitch

[Dave]

Damn straight I did. Now get out of my thread bitch. <3

[Tomas]

Hey Dave,

What about long journey it was, looking forward to your questions so:

Explainto me why I shouldn’t give Sam my vote even though I think it’s quite impressive to have the numbers in this game, lose them and then still make it to the end?

I agree that Sam's way to the end was impressive. But..

We were outnumbered from the beginning i guess that lot of alumni players and fans of this season just waiting how easy and how soon we all are gonna get kicked from this game one by one. We have hard time to win the first immunities and have a really hard time to get so many people online like other tribe did to win immunity. Reason why i use word "We" is that we gained this like tribe, but this doesn't mean that i had a easier way then Sam did to the finals. Everything flipped at least 2 times...

like... for comparation... Once that we started struggling (ryan's out, adrian's out). Way for Sam was a way easier then way for me. I was underdog after Adrian's out. What i respect is the fact, that Sam is player who can control his feelings and even at councils where Kwele was outnumbered he could control his feelings. But same like me at the end, because i could easily be next to go.

Am I mistaken in my statement that I think neither of you had any real influence in any of the votes before F4? If so explain where I’m wrong

In case what means real influance. Like i said so many times i worked with Adrian about our decisions.

Like for example: reason why we voted off Danielle at very first TC was that she wanted you to go very first. And then me and Adrian told to ourselves (i skyped adrian about it and told him that is bullshit to kick one of our most active players and he told me same). Then she wanted to kick off Joe or Ian. That's the reason why me and Adrian very soon in this game realized that Danielle and Brandon are not good choice for an alliance. So i guess i had an influance for this vote. Also for another votes like Ian or whoever. But if you mean it in that way that i'm gonna to tribe chat and say: "hey guys gonna vote for [name]" so then no, i had never done this. But it comes with my strategy well.

Was it really Tomas who convinced Jose to make the incorrect decision for him (<3 Jose) to turn on me, or is there more to this story?

After Joe's thread in Jury answers i wasn't sure with that. Because Joe said to me there, that it was only his personal decision. Our plan (with Sam) was to vote against Joe because of IS points. In case that Sam wins immunity he was supposed to play it for me or give it for me. But i wasn't sure with that (because my decision at last TC to go with you no with Sam and Sagar) and i was right. Sam keep that things to himself. Which is understable lol. Even if i think that also in case that i will go with Sagar and Sam, Sam is gonna keep that necklace for himself. But whatever. So my only option where had been chance like 10% was to try to convince Joe to voting for you, Dave.
So the first thing what i did, was to type Joe instantly and try to convince him for voting you. (Remember - we were talking that time: i know you're going against me it's okay - same here man it's okay - what an epic talk ). I supposed that it was my job maybe just from a little, but Joe refused it in his threat so honestly, it was probably only Joe's personal decision. But i tried it at least.


The moment that Adrian came to me in the first round and said You/Him wanted to work with me to take out Danielle/Brandon I knew that you two were going to be a tight duo for this entire game. Didn’t help that Brandon publically called you guys out on it. Did you do anything to try to hide this obvious partnership?

Answered on this in Adrian's thread i'm gonna quote

Dec 15, 2012 14:24:23 GMT -5 Tomas said:

Which active steps did you take in this game to convince the original members of Kwele that you were "less of a threat" than I was in this game in order to keep the target off of your back?

Well at very first moment, i was so sure about that you will be that threating one from us, because i didn't know you. I just noticed that you are friendly and active one, and being around so i wanted to have you as my closest ally. To have around somebody who is online and with who i can work with and cooperate with. But soon I realized that you are really strong personality which helped me a lot. After Brandon's public talk, there was no easy way how to put my target off my back, because everybody cleary knew that we 2 are together

But i made that steps -

1. I was communicating with you mostly about strategic and Dave. Ryan and Joe were my another allies but i don't want to act to them like i'm riding our alliance, specially after that Brandon's thing, so we generally had only talks about life and stuff. I didn't want to come with strategies till i really hadn't to do so

2. After tribal switch, JEB/Kim are contacted me soon, as well as Sagar did because like everybody knows there was some kind of showdown back there. But i didn't rule things like yeah JEB, yeah Kim, yeah Sagar we are gonna to do this... I have to be sure about that they are not gonna vote me (and i won't because i used an idol) but i guess that they had me lower then Dave and that was also my objective. Because i thought that one of JEB or KIM are gonna work with us after the merge and there will be deadly to show to the other tribe that we want to run the things, or that me are gonna run the things.

That's only my examples. I can say that there are lot of examples. Someone can say that it's low play but it isn't. I worked with you as well and i enjoyed it, i just wasn't so in like you and dave were. But i was still prepared to take responsibility also on me just in case. Like i did at the end.

Did you go to Sam after Adrian was voted out saying ‘hey we need to work together’ or did he come to you saying it?

Sam was trying to contact me from the start of the merge. And as i like chat with him, because he wasn't so much strategic (which was his strategy to be kind and then to pull strategy talk to air slowly), so i keep in touch with Sam. But Sam probably didn't trust that i'm gonna do something with my faith or with the game. But after the Adrian's boot me and sam talked together, and it was me who came with f2 alliance idea. Even i have to say that Sam wanted to do this way before. Once like Adrian was voted out, i came with that idea to connect with Sam, but i wanted Sagar's out first so i had to be careful. I have my last good confessional about it (i sucked last days in writing that lol). So i think it was from bothsides, we both wanted to go together to an alliance, but i contacted Sam first with that idea right after Adrian's boot even i guess he wanted this before.


Okay Dave. Thanks for your answers and for playing this game for a big time with me. I enjoyed it. Can't wait to talk with you in Reunion

[Sam]

Hello Dave!


Awesome questions. Thank you for asking such informative and detailed ones. I'm going to try and answer all of them before you get back. The problem is, you asked me eight excellent questions and you will have to read all the answers in one sitting lol. That's sitting through a LOT of long paragraphs written by me!! haha. I sympathize with you. Though I guess you are used to reading long diatribes I've written lol as I hosted you a few times and gosh my Imprisonment stories always went a bit long.



1. I’m gonna bite. What are you talking about with what happened at the merge?

Some of you might be unsure at exactly what happened at merge, and I want to tell you all about what happened because it is truly fascinating haha.

Are you referring to the above quote? If so, what I meant by that is this. I got 9th place (1st juror) in a game recently. I had no clue about all the strategic relationships, game events, shocking turnarounds, etc that occurred, because I wasn't a part of them. I only saw the results. So I was just wanting to explain the whole game for those who might not have saw part of it.


2. Was it really Tomas who convinced Jose to make the incorrect decision for him (<3 Jose) to turn on me, or is there more to this story?

I think Joe ultimately made his own mind up. I don't think Tomas had any influence in this, just because Tomas only talked to Joe about it about 30 minutes before the live Tribal Council where you left. (Tomas kept me updated about everything he was doing.)

I am not saying it was because of me that Joe voted you out Dave. But I pushed the theme of you being an awesome player, extremely nice guy, and huge threat to win starting from Final Seven. I did again at final six. The night before final four tc, I was talking with Joe for about an hour. It was some good small-talk and small strategy stuff, but nothing serious about voting.

It was at this point that I was seriously getting the vibe that both you and Joe did not want me around any longer. Neither of you were even talking to me about the upcoming vote, or long term plans.

So I got that feeling and I decided to address it head on to Joe. I said: Joe, straight up, here's what I think: Dave is going to win this game. I know you are amazing friends with him, but he is. Then I gave him all the reasons why.

Joe said, "I know I have to really think what I have to do...I mean Dave's the MAN, but since F6 I know, if I take him F2, there's a good chance he might win." Like I said, not claiming I flipped him lol, but just wanted to give you the whole story.


3. How does your strategy of always making sure it wasn’t you being voted out work at the F6?

I am copying this from Adrian's answer:

Hey Adrian, let me go through the whole Final Six part from my own perspective.


Kwele was in a good position pre-merge, then disaster hit at merge due to a lot of bad luck with Kim self-voting, Jeb quitting, etc. Then Renee + Chris went. At that point Kwele had gone from 7 people to just 2. We had been trying to break Mbochi for awhile now without success.


We thought we had a workable plan with the screenshot, but that didn't work completely either... after Ryan left, now we just thought we were in even a worse position. And that no one would jump ever for sure. Dave/Joe never gave us any indication that they would.


So basically we thought we were sitting ducks. The live challenge and tribal council came very quickly. I thought I might have time to regroup at the Final Five and see if someone wanted to flip then. After all, Sagar was still around, and you guys were going to vote him out first. So my plan was to just play nice until final five, when maybe something could happen. Now that I know more about the inner Mbochi dynamics, I think something might have happened there for sure, with Dave/Joe being on one side and Adrian/Tomas on the other.


Anyway, besides all that, I had one huge plan: don't win Immunity! Remember I always play Survivor trying to make a winning strategy, or some path to victory I can find towards winning the game.


I had won the previous two Immunities, and if I won this one, I was good as toast. There's no way I could win this game because I'd be voted off the second I didn't have Immunity. What if Tomas used his Immunity nullifying ability on me next round after Sagar left? I'd be done.


So this is actually a hugely critical point in the game for me. The Final Six Immunity Challenge starts. Sagar has a computer program that automatically finds all the pictures for us. Hash had made one for our tribe at a pre-merge challenge.

First I'm thinking, crap. Sagar is onto round two. If Sagar wins this challenge, I lose the game, period.

Then Sagar gives me the answers for me for my part of the challenge. And that's where it gets dramatic.

In the back of my mind, I'm like.... I can't accept these answers! If I do...

1) Mbochi will know that Sagar and I are working together. I had been spending a lot of time the past week trying to separate Sagar and I in their eyes. If they thought Sagar and I were together, then they thought Sagar would vote for me to win on the jury, along with Chris and Renee, and I'd be absolutely screwed. Plus I'd be revealed as lying about not being close to Sagar.

2) I'd be seen as an Immunity threat even if I lost round two. Total disaster.


But then again at the same time, Immunity is very tempting in a game where five of my allies had been voted out in five of the last tribal councils, you know?


So I had to make a critical choice, and the clock was ticking...

[12/4/2012 7:18:27 PM] Sagar: um i have the script for this
[12/4/2012 7:18:34 PM] Sagar: from the first challenge
[12/4/2012 7:20:37 PM] Sam Burkett: oh wow
[12/4/2012 7:20:38 PM] Sam Burkett: nice!!!!
[12/4/2012 7:20:45 PM] Sam Burkett: is it gonna work w/ this ?
[12/4/2012 7:20:46 PM] Sagar: i'm asking rob if i can use it
[12/4/2012 7:21:36 PM] Sagar: i1337.photobucket.com/albums/o668/iSurv1vorChallenges/0139.jpg
[12/4/2012 7:21:41 PM] Sagar: i1337.photobucket.com/albums/o668/iSurv1vorChallenges/0202.jpg
[12/4/2012 7:23:32 PM] Sagar: i1337.photobucket.com/albums/o668/iSurv1vorChallenges/0399.jpg
[12/4/2012 7:25:36 PM] Sagar: i1337.photobucket.com/albums/o668/iSurv1vorChallenges/0673.jpg
[12/4/2012 7:25:57 PM] Sagar: i1337.photobucket.com/albums/o668/iSurv1vorChallenges/0833.jpg
[12/4/2012 7:25:59 PM] Sagar: boom








~five minute pause where I think to myself: what am I going to do?~

[12/4/2012 7:28:48 PM] Sagar: SAM
[12/4/2012 7:28:50 PM] Sagar: gooo
[12/4/2012 7:30:49 PM] Sam Burkett: this could bite me but
[12/4/2012 7:30:55 PM] Sam Burkett: i think i want to lose this challenge
[12/4/2012 7:31:05 PM] Sam Burkett: so i want you to do your best good luck my friend
[12/4/2012 7:31:14 PM] Sagar: what!!
[12/4/2012 7:31:22 PM] Sagar: do you think you can stay
[12/4/2012 7:31:24 PM] Sagar: if i win immunity
[12/4/2012 7:31:26 PM] Sam Burkett: no
[12/4/2012 7:31:30 PM] Sam Burkett: not at all
[12/4/2012 7:31:33 PM] Sagar: LOL then why
[12/4/2012 7:31:40 PM] Sam Burkett: but like...... if they know me and you are working together (so that you'd give me the links)
[12/4/2012 7:31:47 PM] Sam Burkett: and then think im an immunity threat
[12/4/2012 7:31:52 PM] Sam Burkett: i will never win 1st place in the whole game
[12/4/2012 7:31:55 PM] Sam Burkett: that's a double whammy
[12/4/2012 7:32:17 PM] Sagar: but what's the point if you think you're leaving anyway
[12/4/2012 7:32:22 PM] Sam Burkett: i always say i'm playing for 1st place and not 3rd or 4th lol
[12/4/2012 7:32:36 PM] Sam Burkett: i feel like im guaranteed 4th or 5th if i win this
[12/4/2012 7:32:53 PM] Sam Burkett: but i'd be happy if you get to go along and compete so by all means go for it
[12/4/2012 7:34:19 PM] Sagar: ughhh
[12/4/2012 7:34:22 PM] Sagar: don't leave me alone in here
[12/4/2012 7:34:34 PM] Sam Burkett: im going to lose 4 sure if you win but
[12/4/2012 7:34:42 PM] Sam Burkett: i feel like either of us has a tiny tiny chance otherwise
[12/4/2012 7:34:44 PM] Sam Burkett: to win the whole thing
[12/4/2012 7:34:56 PM] Sam Burkett: so i'd like that to happen. i dont care about the difference between 6th and 4th lol

That was a tough choice to make. But I figured it was not for sure that Sagar would win the whole Immunity Challenge. I could still have a shot if Sagar lost!

Then Sagar won the whole Immunity Challenge.

Then Sandy announced we had 10 minutes for Tribal Council.

And I was pretty sure I was screwed.

Dave or Joe had given neither of us any indication that they wanted Adrian out at any time, so I did not know of their plans to do that. I had tried to keep lines of communication open with Dave and Joe prior to this.


Then Joe came to me asking me to vote you out and the rest is history!


This is partially why I'm still fighting for your vote, Adrian. I thought there was a 0.005% chance of me surviving the Final Six Tribal Council, but I did. I didn't give up. I thought there was a less chance of me getting to the finals, but I did. I never gave up.


Maybe there's an even tinier chance of me getting your vote to win the game against Tomas, but as has been my theme in this game... I'm not giving up.

Thanks for your questions Adrian!

[Sam]

4. Finally, how is your strategy of making sure you weren’t the one being voted for every round any different from Tomas’ game? I could argue that Tomas played that exact strategy even better because it turns out he was never in danger of leaving this game once. (Thus my original question of why shouldn't I vote for Tomas who was headed for the end game regardless).

I think I answer this question in my closing statement: isurv1vor16.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=ftc&thread=630&page=1#4796 .


I know Dave that you, rightfully, think that personal attacks are not appropriate for Survivor games. I agree with you. I hope you don't feel like I am attacking Tomas personally with some of these answers. A lot of them you asked me to critique Tomas's Survivor gameplay, which I feel I am doing. I don't want it to seem like I'm harping on him lol, I think he played a great game too. I think both of our games had strengths and weaknesses, and I feel we should both celebrate our strengths and point out the other's weaknesses to give us our best chance to win.



Explain to me why I shouldn’t give Tomas my vote even though I believe that he was headed for the endgame regardless of who was in power?


quote from right after Ryan was voted out:

Dec 3, 2012 8:52:47 GMT -5 Tomas said:

just to be clear, to Sagar's words about being on 3rd or 4th place. I like you sometimes man, but i wanted you gone this round, not ryan..sucks Im working with same people which i was working till first day, so if im gonna be 4th whatever, i am loyal to people which stayed behind me at Brandon's fight, which played idol for me... so yeah then maybe im stupid, but that's why i am in this position and you are in yours..and trust me, mine is still better

whatever

I'm not sure if people remember Darrah, the young woman from Survivor: Pearl Islands. Darrah was always going to make the endgame of Pearl Islands, because she was not threatening and not strategic, so no one had a reason to take her out. The game was so complex and awesome, that there were always threatening people to take out, or big change-ups taking place. Darrah was sitting just there.


Darrah was never going to win, because she never had a winning strategy, or some plan that was going to make her the Sole Survivor. But she was guaranteed to make it very far. Other similar players include Scout from Vanuatu, Jan Gentry - the crazy lady who buried a bat in Survivor: Thailand, or the "Other Kim" from Survivor: Africa who no one remembers lol (Kim P). They were just there, so they stayed around a long time.

---

When I play Survivor, my strategy is always to win. I'm not aiming for 9th, 6th, or fourth place lol, I feel like it's win or bust. Go big or go home! There's only one winner in Survivor. I'd rather go out early merge by giving myself the best shot I have at winning, then burn out with no hopes at all but make it to the final four.


I feel Tomas took the latter route. He wasn't playing for first place, he was playing for fourth-ish. If the Mbochi 5 had made final five, you might have voted out Adrian at F5 if he didn't win Immunity. But Adrian could have easily won Immunity, and then Tomas would go. I don't see how Tomas would get anywhere near winning in this final five situation (but you'd know better than I would). Also, I could have easily have voted out Tomas last round, because Joe had betrayed a lot of people. In that case he'd be Scout from Vanuatu. Also at the merge F9 my group voted for Tomas, it was quite risky for Joe to give up his idol for someone else. I don't think Tomas had as sure of a path to the end as many think he did.


I was always focused on making sure I had a path to victory, because if there wasn't one, then there was no point really was there? lol. In fact when I lost numbers at merge, I wasn't frightened of being voted out, I was terrified of not having a path to victory.

---

At that point all my energies went into making sure my path to victory wasn't crushed. I tried to make three things happen:

1) I needed to make sure I was not seen as an immunity threat.

That would be a death sentence. It was for Sagar. If you guys thought I would win many challenges, I had no hope of staying the first round I didn't have Immunity.

Yes I was seen as an Immunity threat near the very end. But until then I didn't over-perform on Kwele. I tried to stay low early merge. I ended up winning immunity because I had the most confessional iS points at the auction, but that one was kind of a no brainer and I don't think people blamed me for it. Then at the next challenge it was me VS. Adrian for final seven immunity. I did not want to win immunity, but at the time our plan hinged on voting Adrian out, so I kind of had to win if I wanted even a slight chance of our plan working.

Then at the final six immunity I was TERRIFIED. If I was even close to winning that one, I knew I would be completely screwed and my path to victory would now take me straight off a cliff haha. I think I told the Final Six story in an answer above.

2) I needed people to think Kwele jury members disliked me.

This could be another death sentence. The problem with being in a minority tribe come merge is that you have several people on the jury who really like you who you didn't betray. That's a huge problem lol. Just imagine if you guys thought Renee, Chris, and Sagar all liked me and all of them were all on the jury. That means I'd have three likely votes. With that, I'd have no shot in hell of people wanting me anywhere near the final two!!!

Facebook Message to Sagar at Final Six:

Me and you have an Absolute Zero chance of winning if for example the jury thinks Renee and Chris and you will vote for me to win. Absolute Zero. I've been working on getting them to think Renee doesn't like us. If you have any idea how to get them to think Chris is mad at us let me know lol. BUT WE HAVE TO PRETEND TO HATE EACH OTHER b/c that's a for sure thing we can do. i've been working on it not too hard but.... i just want them to think i won't vote for you to win.

I knew I had no shot of winning at all if people thought all the Kwele jury members liked me. I had to do everything possible to make sure people didn't think that, or I was not going to win. This was actually a pretty huge strategy of mine.

Also here you see that part of my strategy was making it appear that Sagar and I were not friendly at all. That's another big part of my strategy. Quick summary: If Tomas thought me and Sagar were close in the Final Five, there is no way he would join us at the Final Five Tribal Council to vote out someone else. Because he would think me and Sagar would take each other to the end. Additionally, people were starting to think maybe they wanted to take Sagar to the F2 because they could beat him. In this case that meant I would be voted out for sure.

3) I needed people to think I was clueless / dumb / not involved.

Long story short: People go after threats first. Lots of threatening people left in this game. It was to my advantage to play dumb because if I was seen as smart and connected, I'd be voted out before Chris or Sagar would.


Question for Tomas: Did you go to Sam after Adrian was voted out saying ‘hey we need to work together’ or did he come to you saying it?

My thoughts from Joe's thread:

The scene: We just had the F6 Tribal Council, and Sagar had won Immunity, and somehow I wasn't voted out. After I picked my jaw up off the floor, I quickly realized I now had an opportunity.

Tomas was left out of this vote.

So I went straight to Tomas before he went to sleep cause it was 2am his time lol. I let him know I was here if he wanted to talk. I then told him about how tight Joe and Dave were, and how they had masterminded all of this.

The day after next, I decided to start getting up around 8-10am my time so I could try and catch Tomas on Skype. For the next three days I did see him, and we talked a lot about our strategies and future in the game. We also got to talk about our lives a little bit too for the first time so that was nice.

Tomas wanted to vote out Sagar now and separate Joe/Dave later. I thought that was really risky, for both me and Tomas. First, Tomas could lose the tiebreaker of iS points easily. If he did, I'd have little shot of making it to F2 without Immunity, and Dave could win Immunity or beat us both in jury easily.

And second... well... I'd rather have Sagar in the game for about fifty obvious reasons lol.

So little by little, day by day, I worked on trying to get Tomas to vote for Joe at final five. In these quotes I cut out all my long strategy talks and just are showing you the results lol. I think I accomplished it:

[12/7/2012 8:58:29 AM] tomas: i will do what you want man, to prove my loyality we can use my advantage on joe or dave's vote
[12/7/2012 8:59:04 AM] tomas: but there are only 2 ways to do that
[12/7/2012 8:59:34 AM] tomas: vote off dave tonight, and then win at least 1 of 2 immunities
[12/7/2012 8:59:54 AM] tomas: or vote off sagar easily tonight and then win first immunity
[12/7/2012 8:59:58 AM] tomas: both are tough lol

[12/8/2012 8:33:44 AM] tomas: so do u think that sagar is going rather with them then with us?
[12/8/2012 8:34:25 AM] tomas: but with sagar vote we can kick off Joe
[12/8/2012 8:34:31 AM] tomas: or with other vote we can kick off Sagar
[12/8/2012 8:34:38 AM] tomas: whatever u like more

And then... success!

[12/8/2012 9:06:19 AM] tomas: sounds good to me
[12/8/2012 9:06:37 AM] tomas: so yeah man we can stuck with this plan to destroy Dave/Joe

[12/8/2012 9:09:29 AM] tomas: yeah but i guess this is best way for us now
[12/8/2012 9:10:01 AM] tomas: you know, that i was the one who really dont want sagar around... for real.. but now i think it's best way for us, because iS points will be very deadly next round
[12/8/2012 9:10:31 AM] tomas: they probably will also in case that joe will left the game, and probably for me but it still bigger shot

Oh but wait, we have to let Sagar know about this plan...

[12/8/2012 9:19:38 AM] tomas: we have to contact sagar
[12/8/2012 9:20:15 AM] tomas: i am little bit affraid that i wont be able about deadline of TC so i hope we can make our plan till 3-4 hours from now
[12/8/2012 9:20:23 AM] tomas: we just need to have sagar around

[12/8/2012 9:21:32 AM] tomas: yeah dont worry im gonna contact him
[12/8/2012 9:21:39 AM] tomas: in case that he wont be able on skype
[12/8/2012 9:21:53 AM] tomas: im gonna write him message and cast the vote for Joe and negate for dave

So Tomas waits on Skype for about 5-6 hours, waiting for Sagar to show up to "confirm it." We need Sagar in on this plan for it to work. Sagar shows up about 20 minutes after Tomas signs off Skype. =/ What a disaster!!!


Then Tomas leaves me this message:

[12/8/2012 2:33:51 PM] tomas: hey sam, im just letting u that i voted for sagar, i talked with Dave and yeah he and Joe are together but i forced them to vote sagar for sure in case using my erase vote... i just didnt want to be off this game in this round, if there is a possibility to survive. Plan with sagar is the best, but he never replied me, not on proboards and not here, so im affraid that he's gonna work with dave and joe, so i forced dave to vote to sagar and i know how he's talking so i really think that he's voting for Sagar..as well as Joe.. so i casted my vote for Sagar.
reason why im letting u this know, is because i really want to go with you not with them so i wanna to let u know before TC, better than after its.

See I didn't understand this, and I think it shows some of Tomas's uncertainty at this point of the game. Tomas wasn't ever going to be voted out at final five. Sagar was never going to work with Dave/Joe. And also Tomas would have been safe from a f4 tiebreaker with this plan, and he would have had a good shot at final two against me or Sagar at f3.


To be a little bit blunt, I think Tomas wasn't sure what was going on without Adrian. I kind of feel like I had to start and push all of the strategies when I was talking with Tomas. What he was saying really didn't contribute to strategy a lot.

Also Tomas really rubbed me the wrong way when he just declared he was voting for Sagar, going against all of the three days of talking he had agreed to earlier. At that point I felt our alliance was broken by him. He didn't come to me and talk about it, he just did it and let me know about it.

That is why I didn't give Tomas the Immunity at F4 like I was going to, because I didn't trust him because of that. That could have led him to being voted out, or not being taken to final 2.


Sorry if this seems pushy... I just wanted to kind of show you what the game was like from my own perspective, and then you can judge it however you like. I just want to state the facts and make my case. And of course I appreciate any of Tomas's comments on what I say! My game sure as hell wasn't perfect lol.

[Sam]

And then I also said it’s when you lie for the sake of lying that annoys me? Yeah, I caught you lying for the sake of lying and that negatively tainted your image to me for the last few rounds I was in the game.


I am confused by this. I would love to talk about it with you more now, or after the game if time is short. In fact, one of my #1 mantras when playing Survivor is never lie more than you have to. Not only is it wrong, but it's bad Survivor gameplay lol.


I never felt I lied more than I had to, if you had examples, I would like to see them. It is possible that you didn't realize why I, in my own position, had to tell those lies I told you? I think in my answers above, I went through why I had to lie about certain things, to give myself any chance at all of winning this game. I had to lie about not working with Sagar. I had to tell little lies to try and break up Mbochi to give myself a chance.


Yes Tomas didn't tell as many lies as I did... but he didn't have to. He was in a very privileged majority position where he was safe without doing much of anything. I had to constantly fight for my position each and every round to survive. I'm sure you know what it's like being in a minority group at merge Dave lol. It's hard to get people to talk to you sometimes, and even harder to get them to tell you fake information, let alone true information. Especially with as fast as this game went.


Oh, I thought of a lie you might of thought I told unnecessarily. So after the final six, me and you finally voted together in a majority vote. I had been wanting to work with you in this game forever, because of our history and our great conversations and the fact that you can be trusted, etc. But I never had the chance because we were on opposite sides.

I also had never been part of a majority alliance the whole merge, so I was itching to be a part of one.

So then you told me something to the effect of, "I'm always willing to listen to plans if people propose them to me so that we can both get further."

So I was like, alright. I can do that. So I came up with a plan involving me, you, and Joe as a threesome. I brought it up to you saying I wanted that to happen, and maybe we could think about it? You said that you didn't want to confirm or solidify anything until Joe was asked and confirmed, which makes perfect sense.

We never made the final three deal a reality between us, and we didn't agree on as a group who to vote for. In fact you and Joe wanted to vote me out at f4. I did want that alliance, but you guys didn't feel it best suited your game at the time, which is totally fine and okay. It's why I was so confused when you accused me of lying about the 'alliance' during the f4 live TC.


But by doing in that way, saying I 'wanted' the alliance and then putting the ball in your court, allowed me to find out if you were genuinely interested in the alliance, and not just saying yes because you always say yes to alliances. I mean I could have started it and confirmed it and got yes's from everyone and made us have plans, but none of it would have been real you know. This way, by starting things off and then letting you come to me to solidify, allowed me to see if it was really genuine or not. When neither of you mentioned the agreement to me again, I knew it wasn't something you were interested in.

The next day I talked to Tomas on Skype for the first time at length and he genuinely seemed interested in an alliance, so we started talking more. Whereas when I talked to Joe he seemed to be actively avoiding making any sort of agreement with me. He even said if Sagar won Immunity it would be "every man for himself," which of course is a euphemism for "it's going to be you" lol. I knew Joe was smarter than to just let things go randomly if someone won Immunity (this was before the thing was used to stop him from competing).


Anyway, I hope my answers to other questions help show you why I only lied when I had to in order to give me a shot of winning this game.


In your statement, you asked me to prove I played the best game. I know you might not have time (or the desire) lol to read the millions of words I wrote in other people's questions haha. I will try and copy the best parts from there to here. I feel like I might have missed some examples from other questions as well. I feel like every round I was working to create positive situations for me... whether that was saying Adrian or Dave was going to win, whether it was seeming like a confused non-threat, or trying to get Mbochi to break, or furthering my relationships with each player.


This is from Joe's answer:

2 - Were you really clueless about everything that was happening in the votes? Was it strategy from the beginning, or did it turn into strategy?

That's a good question. I think it depends on each vote. From Final Five onwards, I did know what was going on and was a strategic part of it. Tomas and I made that secret alliance at F5. It was always my plan to try and be safe even without immunity. At F5, F4, and even before F3 immunity results were revealed, I think I was in a good place.

For four episodes in Kwele, I think I was in a great place. Me and Chris were kind of in the "middle" of the tribe, with Hash/Sagar on one side and Renee/Kim/JEB on the other. So I kind of knew what was going on from all different angles. A lot of them shared information with me.

When we switched tribes, no one could have predicted who was going to use their idols or the exact outcome of the vote lol. Especially with Kim self-voting, and Hash using his idol on Renee outta nowhere. And when you guys had control at merge, you weren't going to spill the details to me or my group, so I did not know who was being voted out. At all. haha. But I was fairly certain I would be safe, because of Renee not having an idol, and Sagar being a target.

So yes and no, I guess?

I can't say your social game was on the spot, because of the times we talked, you mentioned how you didn't talk to Sagar, or Dave, or how Tomas had a big time difference, or how you really didn't know much about what was going on each round.


It usually is never an advantage in Survivor to be thought of as a mastermind (see this game as an example, lol). So I kinda played up the cluelessness, though I really was clueless at early merge lol. I lied about not talking to Sagar because I thought I was even more doomed if you guys thought we were close allies. We were way less threatening to you if we were against each other than if you thought we were working together. Otherwise we were just another duo that needed to be broken up.

I was in an absolutely terrible position at the middle of merge, and needed to give myself the advantage anyway I could. I'm not sure how much you guys believed me about Sagar though lol, to your credit.


Also if you thought I was close with Sagar and then he got voted out and put on the jury, I would be doubly screwed, because then you'd think I'd have tons of votes to win. =/ It was just something I absolutely had to do to give myself any shot of winning at all.


From Renee's Question:

-Most importantly, why did you choose Tomas to take to the final 2 instead of Joe?

I voted out Joe because I felt this game was all about intelligent plays, strategic players, and smart choices. Almost each and every round, people put intelligence above emotions and made the right decision to get themselves farther. People worked tirelessly episode after episode to ensure their place in the game and work to get themselves farther. Joe did all these things. I feel I did them as well. I thought that, in the end of it all, people would vote who played the smartest game and put emotions aside. Because of that, I thought I had a better shot against Tomas. Rather than Joe, who I thought would win.


Woo! Okay that's all I think. Thanks again Dave!

[Dave]

Thanks guys for your responses.

Just to clarify Sam that wasn't what I was talking about when I said I caught you lying. Everything you explained above is game based and I have no problem with it. I'll just show the chat I was having with Jose to explain what annoyed me.

[2012-12-06 3:35:19 AM] Dave Johnston: is he talking to you at all either?
[2012-12-06 3:35:28 AM] Dave Johnston: or is it just me he wants to talk to lol
[2012-12-06 3:38:02 AM] Joe Martinez: haha yeah he's talking to me
[2012-12-06 3:38:14 AM] Joe Martinez: we're just talkin' about Sagar and the last few rounds
[2012-12-06 3:38:20 AM] Dave Johnston: interesting, seeing he told me brb
[2012-12-06 3:38:21 AM] Dave Johnston: lmfao
[2012-12-06 3:38:49 AM] Dave Johnston: are you talking on with voice?
[2012-12-06 3:38:53 AM] Joe Martinez: yes
[2012-12-06 3:39:13 AM] Dave Johnston: like right now? lol
[2012-12-06 3:39:40 AM] Joe Martinez: yeah right now haha
[2012-12-06 3:39:44 AM] Dave Johnston: [2012-12-06 3:27:59 AM] Sam Burkett: ok =) gimme a few minutes to use the restroom? that mcdonalds from last night is getting to me lol
[2012-12-06 3:28:11 AM] Dave Johnston: no problem
[2012-12-06 3:39:46 AM] Dave Johnston: LMFAO
[2012-12-06 3:39:56 AM] Dave Johnston: what a liar

That's what annoyed me.

Regardless of all of that good luck to both of you!

[Adrian]

^ That is pretty funny!

[Sam]

Okay, I can see why you were annoyed with that haha. =) that is pretty funny.


In my defense, I had maybe ~45 minutes to devote to the game before I had to leave. I had to get concise, effective strategy sessions in with both of you at the same time, in a short period of time. Time was very short and I hadn't talked to either of you recently, and I didn't necessarily want both of you to know that I was talking to both of you (complete failure on my part).

I actually did spend 5 minutes prior to that in the bathroom due to McDonalds, however. =)